Have you been able to put much thought into the history/future of “civil society guilds” a la the masons, lions, elks, etc. given their significant decline over the past half century plus? (Have a self interest in answers to this question, as a mason myself).
I think that if we approach these "civil society" guilds like the Masons from the perspective of how they provide something of high value and exclusive nature to their members, we can basically predict their future success. Perhaps the decline of groups like the Masons has more to do with the rise of competing guilds that provide the same sort of benefits than it does with some foundational dysfunction. In general, I think they could work on their marketing, because it's my feeling that 75 years ago, people would have jumped at the opportunity to join the Masons, whereas now, I think it's something people might tell whoever is trying to recruit them that "they'll sleep on it" in hopes of avoiding the pressure to join. Those of us on the outside are woefully unaware, but perhaps there has been a shift in the type of person who becomes a leader within masonry, more concerned with hierarchical status games and making membership a competitive rather than collaborative act. (Just a speculation from an outsiders POV). I find that when institutions without good mechanisms for channeling the more "zero-sum" minded members towards productive activities (or without enough of an exclusivity filter to keep these people out) become captured by status seekers, and suffer from extreme sclerosis as a result.
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. I’m bullish on freemasonry long term just because odds are something that’s been around for hundreds of years will continue to exist well into the future. But I do tend to blame institutional failure rather than competition. That could be part of it, but I haven’t done/seen much actual research. We’re certainly not losing members to other similar orgs. I think partly masonry used to be used as an excuse for professional “networking,” and that may have faded due to the internet and other orgs.
Also, thing is, masons aren’t even technically supposed to recruit. Some complain about decline like me, but official doctrine is that you don’t recruit, and make interested candidates come to you. “To be one, ask one” and all that. And it’s not easy, that’s for sure. Barrier to entry is high. There’s a ton of ritual memorization, required meetings, paperwork. And anyone in your lodge could blackball you without explanation for any reason.
Also just incredibly byzantine. Bureaucracy is super outdated and could use a real dose of streamlining. One thing I think may be holding back innovation is the way it’s organized. Very decentralized. Effectively no organization above the state grand lodges. And ours here in Virginia doesn’t seem too eager to change.
But who knows. May just need an adjustment period. Membership has gone through cycles before and I’m sure civil society orgs will continue to serve a purpose.
Very good point about the lindy nature of freemasonry. I'm bullish on greek life for the same reason. I was under the impression that the decentralized nature was by design though. Who knows, maybe years from now I'll find myself a Mason and see things from your POV.
Man those war games sound fun. In the past I tried playing factions on Minecraft servers but I couldn’t figure out how to properly join a community and be a part of the team and stuff.
But yeah I agree with your conclusion- I think in the metaverse voluntary organization will be more common due to lower frictions
Hey Kartik, thanks! That means a lot coming from you. I was reading about The Collegia in Work, Labour, Professions of the Roman World (link in the footnotes) and was struck by how similar some of their organizational structures were to those of our modern day. From there, I did some research, found that these similarities were not exclusive to the romans and also had lots of very interesting examples, and the subject shifted from explaining the link between collegia and modern labor orgs to building a model that could explain all of the links and their diverse nature. Definitely one of the posts I've had more fun with!
“dipped their fingers into a broad spectrum of pies”
this was strangely appetizing
Have you been able to put much thought into the history/future of “civil society guilds” a la the masons, lions, elks, etc. given their significant decline over the past half century plus? (Have a self interest in answers to this question, as a mason myself).
I think that if we approach these "civil society" guilds like the Masons from the perspective of how they provide something of high value and exclusive nature to their members, we can basically predict their future success. Perhaps the decline of groups like the Masons has more to do with the rise of competing guilds that provide the same sort of benefits than it does with some foundational dysfunction. In general, I think they could work on their marketing, because it's my feeling that 75 years ago, people would have jumped at the opportunity to join the Masons, whereas now, I think it's something people might tell whoever is trying to recruit them that "they'll sleep on it" in hopes of avoiding the pressure to join. Those of us on the outside are woefully unaware, but perhaps there has been a shift in the type of person who becomes a leader within masonry, more concerned with hierarchical status games and making membership a competitive rather than collaborative act. (Just a speculation from an outsiders POV). I find that when institutions without good mechanisms for channeling the more "zero-sum" minded members towards productive activities (or without enough of an exclusivity filter to keep these people out) become captured by status seekers, and suffer from extreme sclerosis as a result.
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. I’m bullish on freemasonry long term just because odds are something that’s been around for hundreds of years will continue to exist well into the future. But I do tend to blame institutional failure rather than competition. That could be part of it, but I haven’t done/seen much actual research. We’re certainly not losing members to other similar orgs. I think partly masonry used to be used as an excuse for professional “networking,” and that may have faded due to the internet and other orgs.
Also, thing is, masons aren’t even technically supposed to recruit. Some complain about decline like me, but official doctrine is that you don’t recruit, and make interested candidates come to you. “To be one, ask one” and all that. And it’s not easy, that’s for sure. Barrier to entry is high. There’s a ton of ritual memorization, required meetings, paperwork. And anyone in your lodge could blackball you without explanation for any reason.
Also just incredibly byzantine. Bureaucracy is super outdated and could use a real dose of streamlining. One thing I think may be holding back innovation is the way it’s organized. Very decentralized. Effectively no organization above the state grand lodges. And ours here in Virginia doesn’t seem too eager to change.
But who knows. May just need an adjustment period. Membership has gone through cycles before and I’m sure civil society orgs will continue to serve a purpose.
Very good point about the lindy nature of freemasonry. I'm bullish on greek life for the same reason. I was under the impression that the decentralized nature was by design though. Who knows, maybe years from now I'll find myself a Mason and see things from your POV.
Man those war games sound fun. In the past I tried playing factions on Minecraft servers but I couldn’t figure out how to properly join a community and be a part of the team and stuff.
But yeah I agree with your conclusion- I think in the metaverse voluntary organization will be more common due to lower frictions
Great post. What motivated you to write this, and connect such various organizations as examples of guilds?
Hey Kartik, thanks! That means a lot coming from you. I was reading about The Collegia in Work, Labour, Professions of the Roman World (link in the footnotes) and was struck by how similar some of their organizational structures were to those of our modern day. From there, I did some research, found that these similarities were not exclusive to the romans and also had lots of very interesting examples, and the subject shifted from explaining the link between collegia and modern labor orgs to building a model that could explain all of the links and their diverse nature. Definitely one of the posts I've had more fun with!